On VOCM's BackTalk responding to questions regarding the Government of Quebec's continued changing of our border on official maps - by saying there is no dispute and they are not going to debate it.
And by the way - why didn't Linda Swain ask Dunderdale about Ottenheimer's concerns?
Better yet why ask the Minister of Natural Resources? Then helps with the Hydrology and Mineral maps but it does nothing with the Electoral maps or Transport maps or Tourism maps. In fact the Minister herself said it was John's job. Why didn't John asked or why didn't he answer.
Okay Kathy your colleague said -
Transcript of Hansard
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions this afternoon are for the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: I know he is on top of his job, so therefore he must be aware of a new glossy brochure called The Territory and a new map of Quebec, produced by the Government of Quebec, which includes a large part of southern Labrador in the Province of Quebec.
Has the government protested this claim on our territory directly to Quebec and to the Government of Canada? I would ask the minister to table those letters protesting this act, along with the responses from both Quebec and Ottawa.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) like to see your job description.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. NOEL: Come up to the office and I will discuss it with you any time.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the member well knows, the border between Quebec and Newfoundland is recognized by both provinces. We are content with the level of recognition that exits. Obviously from time to time some questions are raised by particular individuals. I am not specifically aware of the one that the member raises today. I will look into it and have a further answer for him in the near future.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John’s East.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Following Question Period, I will be pleased to show both a map and brochure, one dated 1998, one dated 1999, both official government documents which make quite clearly the point that I raised earlier. It is a serious matter, I say, Mr. Minister. Quebec is building a legal case by openly claiming ownership of our territory. Every time our government fails to reject and protest Quebec’s claims, we build credibility for their case. Some court, somewhere, some time, may be influenced by the history -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: - of Quebec’s persistence in claiming our land and our failure to do anything about it.
I ask the minister: Why are you so silent, as Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs? Why are you and why is this government afraid to stand up to the Province of Quebec?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
MR. NOEL: Mr. Speaker, our Province has not been silent on this issue when it has been necessary to be vocal, but we do not feel that it is necessary to be very vocal at this particular time because we think that the border is recognized by all Canadians, by the Government of Quebec. I think the Premier of Quebec, just a few days ago, indicated that the border between his province and our Province is not in question.
There is no serious disagreement about that border. From time to time the question is raised by various interests. From time to time we see certain publications that we would prefer would be printed other than they are; but, if we at any time feel that there is a serious issue that has to be dealt with, it will be dealt with. At the present moment we are quite content with the recognition of the boundary that exists in the country.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for St. John’s East.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister, he should really treat this issue much more seriously. Both of these official documents clearly speak for themselves. How can this government keep on doing business with a province that claims our territory, does not recognize our laws, has captured almost all of the benefits from our resources in Labrador, and uses its overwhelming influence in Ottawa to deny federal support for our rights and interests as a Province? How do you continue to do business in this manner, Mr. Minister?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.
MR. NOEL: Mr. Speaker, I think that recent events will indicate that the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is doing excellent business with the Province of Quebec. We do not feel that there is any credible question raised about the border. I will look into the couple of specific instances that the member has cited -
AN HON. MEMBER: Just to satisfy his mind.
So Minister Dunderdale answer this - has the government ever asked Quebec in writing about these maps?
Has anybody under the Danny William's administration ever asked Quebec to change the maps?
What have been the replies?
I guess if there were anybody to vote in the defined elections map of Quebec - they might vote - then what?
14 comments:
The borders of Labrador and Quebec have been established since 1927 with the Privy Council ruling, so the provincial government of Newfoundland and Labrador should immediately advise Quebec to STOP misrepresenting its border in Quebec, as it pertains to the established borders of Labrador with the province of Quebec.
You can rest assured if it were the province of Newfoundland and Labrador drawing up maps and including Quebec territory, Quebec would have advised the province of Newfoundland and Labrador to have stopped it with the first errant Map, and if the province of Newfoundland and Labrador didn't obey Quebec's orders, you can bet your life there would have been litigation.
Premier Williams should advise Quebec to stop the practice immediately.
I believe the borders have been set in constitutional stone for many years and a few maps on one side or the other don't make much difference. If they did then the territory of Labrador would have shrunk to 1/4 to 1/3 the size of Newfoundland many years ago.
The question that always comes to my mind is quite simple. If there were no rivers to dam, no trees to cut, no minerals to mine, no fish to catch (commercial or sport) in Labrador, especially the area addressed in this blog... would this question even come up at all? (I have to tell you that we here in Labrador already know the answer).
Another thing you all might want to do is to consider asking the Labrador and the North Shore Innu who it is that owns that land, those rivers and so on.
Think about it. Please.
I will consider that and I suggest you consider the whole of my writing on Labrador and you might ask - who is on your side? Who is for development of Labrador resources for Labrador?
Thanks for promising to consider my points.
I have made no judgement as to whether you are for the development of Labrador for Labradorians, or for whomever. My point was whether those questions would bear any consideration whatsoever if there were no resources, quite simply. My comments are also aimed at other readers of your blog, for their consideration. I have often made the point(s) that any development should first pass the wishes/desires of Labradorians and be first for the benefit of those same people. To me that does not mean benefit ONLY Labradorians, but leads to the next blatantly obvious (but always overlooked/ignored by governments) that what is good for Labrador could not fail to benefit 'the Province'. thanks again.
Lp
Exactly.
That is the point - and certainly I keep making it Labrador success is success for us all. Down here we get excited when Paradise is the fastest growing community in the province. I would be more excited if Labrador doubled in population and quadrupled in industrial development.
Sue and Ip - I concur with both of you. I can't wait to see Labrador prosper and double in size from its resources, of course, if that is what the people of Labrador want. If Labrador prospers so will the whole province, but unfortunately Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba, and even Ottawa are profiting more from the development and processing of Labrador's resource than Labrador or the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Labrador should be booming if the Upper Churchill Hydro and Voisey's Bay Nickel had been developed to grow industry and thus populate Labrador. It must stop. Firstly though the government of this province need to learn how to draw up contracts on it resources that make the province the primary beneficiary and the adjacent areas to the resource should really be the areas that get the industrial growth. Resources should never be exported out of this province to create economies elsewhere.
I'd certainly agree that that the government of Quebec should not be misrepresenting its borders. I'd also point out, however, that nothing about such misrepresentation changes the legal reality of the 1927 Privy Council Ruling. Nothing at all.
Calling the bluff of Quebec would not be a bad idea. As Wally recently suggested, can't we find some NLers to do some well-documented fishing in 19 Nord and set up a test case to see if Quebec will prosecute?
This need not even involve the provincial government. It could be tested by a group of NLers concerned about our territorial integrity.
Liam I do believe we will have to call their bluff because they are not bluffing. If they are damming rivers where the headwaters and waters flow from Labrador - they have already called us.
Canada appears to be - disinterested which is absurd in and of itself. There is no way to convince me that Canada would not have a false border corrected immediately if Ontario pushed into Quebec.
The stories from our government are inconsistent and concerns of experts should not be ignored.
Remember when we went before the Privy Council it was against Canada not Quebec.
Thanks for your input.
Sue
You can bet your socks Sue that if anymove is made agaisnt the Labrador ,the out-cry from Newfoundlanders and Labradorians from across canada would be deafing.
The flag flap would be a speck compared to what would happen .The call for independce would be far great then it is now by anymeans.
If canada has any sence,they would not allow this button to be pushed.This in my eyes would lead to the call for an end to confederation as we now know it .
So ,in my mind it might be a good thing.
A couple of points:
Sue: The Privy council decision was 'against' Canada because at that time it was between countries and the Country that spoke internationally for Quebec...was Canada. Now it would be interprovincial but I have no doubt that the Constitution trumps a few maps.
For CALVIN: Maybe you could answer the questions I raised in my first comment on this Blog item? Also I'd like to point out to you that while your Danny was taking down Canadian flags, Labradorians were putting them up, in ever greater numbers. Most of us do not share your anti-Canadian feelings at all...
Okay the decision was in favour of Newfoundland and Labrador and against Canada.
"Also I'd like to point out to you that while your Danny was taking down Canadian flags"
First of all Lp ,he isnt my Danny.
Secondly if you have a thing for Canada ,good ,your more then welcome to its lies and false Prophets.As far as Danny Williams goes ,I think his heart is in the right spot ,but the Province as a whole needs a tiger not a pussy cat when it comes to dealing with canada.
And ,while some labradorians want to blame St Johns for thier problems ,why then do some Bitch when they dont get enough for thier Highway when they send all thier resources too Canada .The Island felt the same way,until they destroyed a 500 year Old Fishery.Want somemore excamples.
So lets all blame the Provincail government when its broke as hell ,with the debt that we have.Look who cashes the check,thats where my anger goes.Another great excample of divide and conquer.Great country this canada.
VB is yet another excample of what is wrong with this confederation.
Why are those resources being sent away,when Labrador needs a highway and jobs to help make it grow.We all know what is going on here.
Federalisaim is evil plain and simple.Where the strong feed on the week and discard the poor.And yes ,do we really need yet another excample of the great Canada.Please.
I was unaware that we were allowed to prevent construction that is going on inside another province.
okay
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