Danny Williams - Open-line - February 14-07
Randy:
We're feeling I think - that what your saying is that you can't besmirch anybodies reputation - we have a moving target when it comes to defining what's libelous or slanderous or scandalous or whatever - and you know I'd rather that we erred on the side of - let's have a reputation or two muddied rather than have free speech in any way curbed and your commentary leaves the impression that - there's a real threat to free speech in loading up every MHA with a lawyer.
Danny:
Well first of all - I just wanna for the for the record - so so that we're very clear - John Hickey is the IEC will pay John Hickey's legal fees - but John Hickey is not going to the IEC - John Hickey is gonna pay his own legal fees. So just for the record so that that is very clear - I just want to make that straight off the top. Now secondly your comment on - let's maybe you know I I can't remember your word there Randy might a been smear couple of reputations - (Randy jumps in)
Randy:
Well now you know maybe we'd besmirch a reputation or two - (Danny jumps in)
Danny:
What about if it was yours? (Randy says "same thing") what about - what about if Roger Grimes came on the air and said ah Randy you're a criminal - you've deliberately mislead the people - you've deliberately misappropriated funds - you've deliberately done something that's criminal therefore you ah by your own deliberate actions are a criminal. How would you feel about that?
Randy:
I'd sue him!
Danny:
(giggling) That's all I need to know. That's all I need to know - and that's exactly the situation - (Randy jumps in)
Randy:
Yeah but but but hold on hold on hold on hold on - I'm gonna tell you it's gonna be a lot easier and a lot more comfortable to do that if my employer has said to me that it really doesn't matter Randy - you can have a lawyer whenever you want here - you can go with like a loaded gun and anybody who speaks ill of you - you can always threaten with a lawsuit. That to me curbs free speech - that's more dangerous than if my reputation gets besmirched - because as a public figure somebody says I'm a crook.
Danny:
Let me ask you another question then - so you're an open-line host you're a moderator on open-line and Roger Grimes phones up and says Randy - some of the things you've said over the last couple of days - boy you're a criminal - ahh you've deliberately done something here - you've deliberately mislead people - you've done something that's criminally wrong - you're a criminal - and he accuses you while you're an open-line host - in your capacity as an open-line host - would VOCM defend you?
Randy:
I would think - (Danny bullies in) there ya go - there's your answer again now - (Randy fights back)
Randy:
Yeah but hold on now - hold on now - I would think but only from the perspective of this - if there was some element of that that was going to impact upon this company - like for example I have no doubt that government should protect it's Ministers - you should you know the IEC should be up there all bats swinging if somebody - if I sued John Hickey or if I sued you - or something you know - they should be there in the course of your duties but you know - we're public figures - every single one of us - like it or not - so if somebody says you know listen - somebody comes on the air today for example Premier - and here's what scares me in this kind of action - somebody comes on the air and says - you know what Randy - the whole friggin lot of them - their all a bunch of crooks bye. Now come on - we know what that person is saying and reputations are not falling apart because of that - is it...
Danny:
But Randy Randy look from my perspective - with a statement like that I'm one of those crooks. I've spent 57 years of my life building my reputation as a lawyer as a businessperson and as a community volunteer - I've here - I work for nothing - I donate my salary - I have people who are coming out saying that because my salary is donated to a foundation I'm getting tax benefits from it - nothing is further from the truth because I actually not only donate my salary I donate the tax deduction as well - so 100% of my money is going to charities - so if people come out and start to tag politicians generally as being crooks you know that's an irresponsible statement - there has to be some limits - there has to be some controls - and when you get somebody who knows better who's a former Premier of a province and says that someone deliberately ahh entered into a criminal action - that's a pretty serious piece of business. And you said to me in the beginning if someone called you a criminal - you'd sue em - and if you said something in your capacity as moderator of that show - that VOCM would support ya. But I'm telling you first of all - ya know - John Hickey is going it alone - John Hickey knows he's got a strong opinion here - he knows he's got a very strong case - and he will be proceeding against Roger Grimes. (Randy tried to say something - the Premier bullied over him) people have no license to come on and completely destroy reputations. Look you know - open-lines are free speaks - they're wonderful vehicles - they get public opinion out - we get debate - I've learned lots of things from open-lines - I've heard your ??? callers phone in and suggest things that are wise wonderful things and I agree with all that - but you can't allow malicious people to tell untruths and destroy the reputations of good honest law-abiding people on open-lines. That that's my point simply. So you know just so the public knows it - they won't be be paying for any lawsuit against Roger Grimes - but I can tell you and I said it yesterday and I'll say it again - if Roger Grimes or anybody else goes after reputations of public officials - and they are telling untruths and they are telling incorrects incorrect things and they are not they are telling lies about people and destroying their reputations - they have a right to be sued and the people that want to should sue them and hold them accountable.
Randy:
Where do we draw the line between legitimate political criticism and disagreement and I'll say passionate debate - where do we draw the line between that and someones interpretation that my reputation has now been besmirched?
Danny:
The law the line gets drawn on ordinary common sense - how many lawsuits have you got? How many callers have you had on your open-lines in the last 5 years - and how many lawsuits have arisen?
Randy:
One
Danny:
And ya know and just just think about it - and the ones who've done it have been people with sharp tongues who basically got back on again and they apologized. There's an awful lot of other people who are going very very very close to the line on what they're doing to destroy peoples' reputations - and ya know they need to be watched - because if they're going to be there and their gonna try and get political gain on the basis of taking someones good character and someones good reputation down - they deserve to be accountable in a court - and a judge will decide - as Roger Grimes has said the judges will decide on this and John Hickey is quite happy to allow a judge to decide on this - but that doesn't mean that every single caller that phones up whether they happen to be a regular Liberal caller - regular PC caller - regular NDP caller - are going to be subject to lie-suit that's lawsuit - that's just taken the whole argument to the ridiculous. So I just ya know its ya know I'm here to firstly first of all say it's not going to be taken out of the public purse - but I'm also saying that I think it's wrong that public officials get slandered because they're offering up their good lives to serve the people of this province. Thanks Randy - have a good morning.
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